shared from Andy Jefferies. https://www.facebook.com/groups/HastingsAreaStations
Andy Jefferies… Schools class Locomotive Hauling a Ashford-Hastings service crossing St Andrew’s Bridge, Queens Road Hastings circa late 1950’s
Peter Ellingworth… Certainly most likely post 1957, note the British Railways newer type motif on the tender which replaced the lion over the wheel from early BR days. Pity we can’t see the locomotive number : from that we could locate the shed it was allocated to at the time (Brighton/Tonbridge/Ashford ?), and possibly the train working itself, as after June 1958 with the full dieselisation of the Hastings – Charing Cross route, the remaining five or so St. Leonards based ‘Schools’ were moved away for work elsewhere. Steam working still existed on the Hastings – Tonbridge and Ashford routes after that, with both freight and some passenger working. One such was the very early morning London Bridge to Hastings via Tonbridge working, which was ‘Schools’ worked I think. This then worked up to Ashford at 08.35 from Hastings, across to Tonbridge and back then to Ashford – Hastings, working the 6.25 or 35 pm parcels train to Tonbridge. I remember seeing this train in March 1962, after being alerted to it by a school friend whose father manned the old West Marina signal box. At that time it was a Brighton or Tonbridge based ‘Schools’- the two I remember were ‘Ardingly’ and ‘Malvern’ and possibly a third ‘Bradfield’, which retained its original single chimney like the one in the photo. I also remember the early morning 1961 newspaper trains- can’t remember though if this was ‘Schools’ worked but I do remember it once with one of Wainright’ s ‘H’ class- presumably as a balance or return to shed -Tonbridge or Ashford ? working. Through trains from the Midlands were still steam worked to Hastings as late as Autumn 1965, being serviced along at Eastbourne. The ‘Schools’ were a highly successful design, and could put up performances which would be good even by today’s modern traction standards. Debate continues as to if they were designed specifically for the Tonbridge – Hastings road, with its well known restricted clearances only ironed out with electrification in the 1980’s, but general opinion is they were built with the Hastings route in mind, but also for other lines that had restricted axle loadings.
I believe the Hastings- Tonbridge route was first mooted for electrification by the South East & Chatham Railway as early as 1903, then again just before WW2 by the Southern Railway. The first fell through because of financial issues, the second because of the international situation and again cost outlay against return benefit. New coaching stock originally intended to be locomotive (steam/diesel) hauled to replace life expired stock was sanctioned in the fifties, then made into the self contained diesel sets that we knew from 1957 onwards. It was also looked at for single tracking before WW2 at the pinch points such as Mountfield tunnel, to bring the route into line with other non width restricted routes, but ruled out because the amount of freight traffic then in use would interfere with passenger workings and timings.
Peter Ellingworth… Remember Lappy’s bike shop just out of the bottom left hand side of the photo? Re. the date again: unless shaded out of the photo, the trolleybus wires were still in place until late 1960 at this point if I remember right . We went to Ashford and Canterbury for the day on the train in summer 1960, and I remember seeing the wiring still in place then when looking down from the train as it crossed the bridge in Queens Rd. So possibly 1961?
Pauline Richards… Yes I remember Lappys. Right next to the gents toilet!
Peter Ellingworth… Andy, that `HastingsAreaStations` Facebook site you refer to certainly has some interesting and detailed info. from both industry insiders and the likes of us. I must admit I had either forgotten, or was not aware, of its existence. It would be interesting to pin down the date of the photo more- some points narrowing it down are the loco itself- original single chimney, as some of the class were later fitted with the wider squat Bulleid one. The livery and tender motif points to post 1956-1957, as this is the later BR one seen on the photo and was applied from then on when the locos were repainted from the BR mixed traffic black into BR brunswick green following overhauls. The nameplate over the wheel arch appears to be a short one: maybe `Stowe`? ( now preserved), which I believe was a visitor to Hastings. Also note although not that clear, what appears to be the AWS box just in front of the cab and behined the rear driving wheel arch. Some of the `School`s were fitted with this kit quite late in their life ( all were withdrawn thanks to an accounting cull by Dec 1962 ). Does anybody else remember seeing `Malvern` `Ardingly` and possibly `Bradfield` `Schools` class swansong on the Hastings line around March-April 1962 ? The absence of the trolleybus wiring, unless brushed out from the photo, is obviously post June 1959, although as mentioned previously I remember seeing it still in place at this location in the summer of 1960, if memory serves me right. The former overhead wiring horizontal supporting arms, dating from tramway days, still then being used to carry the street lights, were in place until well into the late sixties (and seventies?) and can be seen in the photo.
Peter Ellingworth… I have just consulted ‘Locomotives of The Southern Railway’ part 1 by D. C. Bradley, published by the RCTS in Oct 1975 entitled ‘The Schools Class’ . On page 40 he details the last workings of these legendary machines on the Hastings line : ” They consisted of the 5.45 a.m. London Bridge to Hastings (from Tonbridge), 8.34 a.m. from Hastings to Ashford, the 9.30 a.m. Ashford – Tonbridge, 1.16 p.m. vans to Hastings, and the 6.28 p.m home to Tonbridge.” So this fits in with my recollections. This was in March-April 1962, when nos. 30917 ‘Ardingly,’ 30923 ‘Bradfield’ and 30929 ‘Malvern’ were sent to Tonbridge for both these workings, and also for the Uckfield line services to Brighton. I believe however from what I can see their designated ‘home’ depot at the time was Brighton.
An excellent and well researched read if interested is Derek Winkworth’s ‘The Schools 4-4-0s’. Hastings library may have or can obtain a copy, or it can still be obtained through the usual on line channels. When first constructed, despite much pressure to bring them into service, the ‘Schools’ were held back from the Hastings-Tonbridge route until the line had been bought up to scratch by strengthening several bridges, track relaid between Wadhurst and Battle, and alterations to the platforms at Tonbridge Wells Central (source : Bradley’s publication). They looked good, performed good, with only minor modifications made during their life, and extremely popular with both railway folk and the public alike. Regarding the livery I mentioned of earlier, the first to be outshopped from black to green was 30907 ‘Dulwich’ in July-Aug? 1956.( Again from Bradley’s publication). Three are preserved ; ‘Stowe’ at the Bluebell Railway, ‘Cheltenham’ at the NRM, and ‘Repton’ at the North York Moors. ‘Wellington’ was close to being saved I believe, by one of the staff at the school,but fell through due to disagreements on the then conditions of sale. ‘King’s Canterbury’ was also close, and after being kept back for a year at Ashford by BR complete with the offer of an overhaul and repaint, Canterbury City Council reluctantly had to let it go as it could not find any suitable covered accommodation within the city boundary !
Peter Ellingworth… On further perusal of Winkworth’s excellent book, various other sources, and more examination of the photo which although not clear, does I think show the AWS and speedometer apparatus fitted just in front of the ‘Schools’ loco cab above the rear driving wheel, plus the single chimney and short nameplate, narrows it down to 30926 ‘Repton’, 30927 ‘Clifton’ or 30928 ‘Stowe’. The shed allocations around this time were no. 26 to Bricklayers Arms, then Stuarts Lane, no. 27 Feltham then Nine Elms, and no. 28 Bricklayers Arms, then Brighton. So my guess it is Brighton based ‘Stowe’ which was fitted with the AWS gear in May-July 1959 and also repainted in BR Green. It was loaned to Tonbridge shed in August 1961, finally going to Brighton in Oct. that year before being withdrawn in Nov 1962. It is now undergoing overhaul in its preserved state at the Bluebell Railway. Anybody any comments ?
Peter Ellingworth… More interesting reading if so inclined is O. S. Nock’s “4000 miles on the footplate,” published by Ian Allan in 1952 which on pages 27-35 he waxes lyrical about the ‘Schools’ class : ” In turning to the “Schools” there are times when becomes almost at a loss to describe their astonishing feats of weight-haulage and speed ,” and goes on to both tabulate and describe their performances on the Hastings -Tonbridge line with its many steep gradients and sharp curves. Back to the photo : If the loco is either ‘Clifton’, ‘Stowe’ or ‘Repton’ (going by the short nameplate and original chimney) then it would post July ’59 to post Oct ’60, as this is when the AWS kit, which although not clear on the photo, can just be seen in front of the cab below the safety valves was fitted. So 1961-62 ? The coaches look like Maunsell ex-Southern Railway stock, and it would be interesting to pin down that particular train working. After regular Hastings- Charing Cross via Tonbridge steam working finished in June 1958, the St. Leonards West Marina) code ref. 74E depot which was situated opposite the old station, still I think was capable of servicing steam up until 1967. If this included still being able to turn a loco I’m not sure, as the depot had I think one of the shorter fifty-foot turntables. The inter-regional trains from the Midlands that were steam worked through to Hastings until summer ’65 may have had to work light engine on to Eastbourne and turn there either at the shed, or on the former Hamden Park triangle before returning to Hastings. Anybody any ideas ?
Peter Ellingworth… Another clue are the shadows : judging by being to the right ( west to east) this would make it afternoon ?
Chris Baker… My grandma lived in a flat above the shop on the far right. I think the shop below sold sewing machines, which was appropriate as she was a dressmaker.
